User:Billw58/Prefs Options
- Gale 03Jun12: Thanks for the work Bill. The new front page has numbers for the other list it has (the major sections) and this is a list too. Numbers reinforce the importance of Prefs and show the order (which is ambiguous otherwise.
If we have numbers I am +1 on across first, -1 on down first. I like bullets (when aligned properly) +0.75. I'm -0.75 on having neither bullets or numbers. I agree it is not really right in the context of the whole page. If most want neither bullets or numbers, then maybe a subtle border around the Prefs block?
- Bill 03Jun12: The PrefBull template aligns the bullets properly, but screen readers will say the link to the graphic every time encountered whether a template is used or not. I thought the bullet graphics were out because of this?
By the 'prefs block' do you mean the table of 16 sections? I've added that to the No Numbers section.
I could make a case for prefs sections to be listed alphabetically. After all, until you see an image of the prefs dialog what does the order matter? Perhaps users could find what they're looking for faster in a alphabetical list? My point is that numbering to show the order of the prefs sections as presented in the dialog is not that important. - Gale 03Jun12: I had not seen your discovery before now that screen readers say the link to the graphic. I understand with "real" Wiki bullet points (asterisk) they say "text"? Can you remind me why we cannot make this a proper list, given we are still using this in "More Details" - is that fixed now for browsers like Chrome?
I agree ordering Prefs alphabetically might help user sometimes but it would be more confusing to then see a different order when you got there. I would not do it unless we actually say that the list is alphabetical.
I can live with no bullets or numbers if needs be with the enclosed box (that is what I meant) but still -0.25. This is primarily about visuals (not giving users an undifferentiated mass of links in amongst already dense text) and consistency. Perhaps we should wait for Ed as he started this.
- Bill 03Jun12: The horizontal list items are not fixed in Chrome and Safari. Look at this page in Safari. AFAICT the floating horizontal list items appear work properly on the current front page because they are at the bottom of the cell. But look at the current front page in Safari - there is a blank line below the "importing - exporting - metadata editor" line. Since the vast majority of Mac users will be using Safari or Chrome (Camino is very marginal and I believe Firefox is too), we should get this right for those two browsers. If this means using fake lists or some other form of presentation then I think that should be seriously considered.
VoiceOver behaves differently in Chrome and Safari - Safari says "text" when it encounters a real bullet, Chrome says nothing and skips it (I think). With your change to the PrefBull template, Voiceover in Safari says "wiki bullet dot P N G image".
My point about alphabetizing was that order is not really that important and thus I don't see the point of needing the numbers.
I've never been that concerned about the "wall of links", nor about slavish consistency in using lists versus tables on the front page. If we feel that the table of prefs sections must appear to be a list then I vote for the numbers - at least screen readers will then say e.g. "one. link, devices preferences. two. link, playback preferences...". - Gale 03Jun12: I am sure David B would prefer a list for Prefs as it "is" a list, but if he accepts major sections as not a list then he should accept Prefs like that. Again, my beef against the prefs table with no numbers or bullets is first, ease of reading and second, consistency (not for lists vs headers in the code, but that this list and the major sections list should look similar with some text or graphic before the items).
Midori is identical to Safari in how it displays this page. "More details" using tables is needlessly expanded IMO, but I think it will be unacceptable for both sighted and VI users and for consistency to solve that by removing the list style. Is the webkit issue having extra space when closing a list with </ul> AND using "clear:both" somewhere? See http://gaclrecords.org.uk/samples.html which displays identically on Safari and Firefox both there and on this page. The first pair of channels is one list and the second pair is two lists. I also tried (within your existing code below) adding a "clear:both" div and immediate end div (so we did not clear the li or ul at all) but it did not prevent extra space. Basically we could I suppose put some conditional in the CSS for webkit browsers that styled the second order lists with negative margin-bottoms?
If we use a real unordered list for the Prefs, do we have any "clear:both" webkit issues with that? I'm coming round to accepting that an unordered list is at least as good as a list with numbers. But if a real unordered list is hard to implement and you don't want to spend a lot of time on it then it pretty much looks like numbers or the current headings in that box...
- Bill 03Jun12:
- I agree that the two table options are not good: the first because of the spacing and the second due to readability.
- My third option (still in progress as I write: I've got an unbalanced div in there somewhere) is no better than the second version.
- Yes, the webkit issue appears to be with using "clear:both" touching </ul>. Note that I am learning CSS as I go and am rapidly delving into advanced CSS without a proper grounding. I try things out until they work. I do not know at the moment how to use conditional CSS to do something different for webkit browsers.
- I believe that if we use a real unordered list for the prefs we'll have to use "clear:both" and will encounter the same problem. As I recall that is why I'm doing what I'm doing in the prefs section.
- Could you try your list examples, but creating rows of floating list items using "clear:both" to force a new row on your HTML (non-wiki) page? That might tell us something, if only that wiki has defeated us.
- Yes, am I rapidly reaching the end of my rope on this. I would accept numbers in the prefs list, but I would really like to see the webkit issue solved for the More Details section.
- On a whim I've added numbers to the lists in my third go at the More Details section (the no lists, no tables version). Perhaps that is a reasonable compromise (once I get the last niggle worked out in the formatting).
Numbers down first
More Details for the Project Window
- Additional menus on Mac:
- Additional Track types:
- Details for importing and exporting:
- LAME MP3 export and FFmpeg import/export libraries for more formats
- On-Demand Loading of uncompressed files
- Importing
- Exporting
- Metadata Editor
- How to arrange Toolbars
Preferences - changing your settings
Preferences are at the bottom of the Edit menu (or in the Audacity menu on Mac).Many settings can be changed including keyboard shortcuts and the interface language.
Preferences settings can be reset to default at any time.
Numbers across first
More Details for the Project Window
- Additional menus on Mac:
- Additional Track types:
- Details for importing and exporting:
- LAME MP3 export and FFmpeg import/export libraries for more formats
- On-Demand Loading of uncompressed files
- Importing
- Exporting
- Metadata Editor
- How to arrange Toolbars
Preferences - changing your settings
Preferences are at the bottom of the Edit menu (or in the Audacity menu on Mac).Many settings can be changed including keyboard shortcuts and the interface language.
Preferences settings can be reset to default at any time.
No numbers
More Details for the Project Window
- Additional menus on Mac:
- Additional Track types:
- Details for importing and exporting:
- LAME MP3 export and FFmpeg import/export libraries for more formats
- On-Demand Loading of uncompressed files
- Importing
- Exporting
- Metadata Editor
- How to arrange Toolbars
Preferences - changing your settings
Preferences are at the bottom of the Edit menu (or in the Audacity menu on Mac).Many settings can be changed including keyboard shortcuts and the interface language.
Preferences settings can be reset to default at any time.
Bullets (using the PrefBull template)
Note that screen readers will say "wiki bullet dot P N G image" for each bullet.
More Details for the Project Window
- Additional menus on Mac:
- Additional Track types:
- Details for importing and exporting:
- LAME MP3 export and FFmpeg import/export libraries for more formats
- On-Demand Loading of uncompressed files
- Importing
- Exporting
- Metadata Editor
- How to arrange Toolbars
Preferences - changing your settings
Preferences are at the bottom of the Edit menu (or in the Audacity menu on Mac).Many settings can be changed including keyboard shortcuts and the interface language.
Preferences settings can be reset to default at any time.
Getting the 'More Details' section to render properly in Safari and Chrome (among others)
This is a case of give up and use tables. The More Details section below is formatted with a table. This is probably not ideal for screen readers (I have yet to try that out), but it renders the same in Camino and Safari (gecko versus WebKit IIRC).
More Details for the Project Window
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Preferences - changing your settings
Preferences are at the bottom of the Edit menu (or in the Audacity menu on Mac).Many settings can be changed including keyboard shortcuts and the interface language.
Preferences settings can be reset to default at any time.
Getting rid of the list style tightens up the line spacing at the expense of readability.
More Details for the Project Window
| Additional Menus on Mac: | ||||
| Audacity | Window | |||
| Additional Track types: | ||||
| Label Tracks | Time Tracks | Note Tracks | ||
| Details for importing and exporting: | ||||
| LAME MP3 export and FFmpeg import/export libraries for more formats | ||||
| On-Demand Loading of uncompressed files | ||||
| Importing | Exporting | Metadata Editor | ||
| How to arrange Toolbars | ||||
Preferences - changing your settings
Preferences are at the bottom of the Edit menu (or in the Audacity menu on Mac).Many settings can be changed including keyboard shortcuts and the interface language.
Preferences settings can be reset to default at any time.
Here it is without a table but using the Prefs template to get side-by-side pseudo-lists
More Details for the Project Window
Additional Menus on Mac:
Additional Track types:
Details for importing and exporting:
1. LAME MP3 export and FFmpeg import/export libraries for more formats
2. On-Demand Loading of uncompressed files
Preferences - changing your settings
Preferences are at the bottom of the Edit menu (or in the Audacity menu on Mac).Many settings can be changed including keyboard shortcuts and the interface language.
Preferences settings can be reset to default at any time.
Some experiments to force real right-aligned numbers
Got it.
What does a real numbered list look like?
- One
- Two
- Three
- Four
- Five
- Six
- Seven
- Eight
- Nine
- Ten
